Vintage 6x9 camera question: Medium Format Talk Forum: Digital Photography Review (2024)

Hi all,

I know the "D" in DPReview stands for "digital", but my father recently gave me his old camera gear, including a mid-1960's Yashica D (twin lens reflex) I'm assuming that it can be used to shoot either 6x6 or 6x4? I've got the original manual, so I'll read through it and see.

I definitely do want to actually give the thing a try!

But if I like the experience, I was wondering about picking up an alternate (vintage) camera that can do 6x9. I know the Lomography Belair can do that. But for about the same money, I'd rather get a vintage one.

So far the candidates are (newest to oldest):

Fuji GW690 I (1970's/1980's)

Mamiya Press (1960's/1970's)

Voigtlander Bessa II (mid 1950's)

Zeiss Ikon Super Ikonta C (early 1950's)

Agfa Record III (early 1950's)

A bunch of brands I've never heard of (Ensign, Baldafix, Ferrania)

I have no doubt that the Fuji (newest) probably shoots the best. And the Mamiya has the benefit of a decent production run, and interchangeable lenses.

I'm not looking for photographic perfection. The coolness/serendipity factor is way more important here. But I just need advice on what to look for that is reasonably affordable. Plus things to be on the lookout for when trying to decide if a camera will still be able to function.

Thanks in advance!

Greg

Hope someone answers your question, but I'd recommend asking it on the Photorio.com medium format forum where people who are currently using these cameras will respond.

73Instamatic wrote:

Hi all,

I know the "D" in DPReview stands for "digital", but my father recently gave me his old camera gear, including a mid-1960's Yashica D (twin lens reflex) I'm assuming that it can be used to shoot either 6x6 or 6x4? I've got the original manual, so I'll read through it and see.

I definitely do want to actually give the thing a try!

But if I like the experience, I was wondering about picking up an alternate (vintage) camera that can do 6x9. I know the Lomography Belair can do that. But for about the same money, I'd rather get a vintage one.

So far the candidates are (newest to oldest):

Fuji GW690 I (1970's/1980's)

Mamiya Press (1960's/1970's)

Voigtlander Bessa II (mid 1950's)

Zeiss Ikon Super Ikonta C (early 1950's)

Agfa Record III (early 1950's)

A bunch of brands I've never heard of (Ensign, Baldafix, Ferrania)

I have no doubt that the Fuji (newest) probably shoots the best. And the Mamiya has the benefit of a decent production run, and interchangeable lenses.

I'm not looking for photographic perfection. The coolness/serendipity factor is way more important here. But I just need advice on what to look for that is reasonably affordable. Plus things to be on the lookout for when trying to decide if a camera will still be able to function.

Thanks in advance!

Good luck in your search. I used a folding Zeiss Ikon 645 camera in the early 50's when it was new. No rangefinder, which was an issue. You will want to inspect the bellows on the cameras on you list that employ them. If they haven't been repaired -- and even if they have -- you might have leaks to deal with. New bellows would probably by custom, and not cheap. Also, if the cameras haven't been used continuously, the shutter will probably need cleaning, lubrication, and adjustment (CLA, in the repair biz).

Jim

73Instamatic wrote:

Hi all,

I know the "D" in DPReview stands for "digital", but my father recently gave me his old camera gear, including a mid-1960's Yashica D (twin lens reflex) I'm assuming that it can be used to shoot either 6x6 or 6x4? I've got the original manual, so I'll read through it and see.

I definitely do want to actually give the thing a try!

But if I like the experience, I was wondering about picking up an alternate (vintage) camera that can do 6x9. I know the Lomography Belair can do that. But for about the same money, I'd rather get a vintage one.

So far the candidates are (newest to oldest):

Fuji GW690 I (1970's/1980's)

Mamiya Press (1960's/1970's)

Voigtlander Bessa II (mid 1950's)

Zeiss Ikon Super Ikonta C (early 1950's)

Agfa Record III (early 1950's)

A bunch of brands I've never heard of (Ensign, Baldafix, Ferrania)

I have no doubt that the Fuji (newest) probably shoots the best. And the Mamiya has the benefit of a decent production run, and interchangeable lenses.

I'm not looking for photographic perfection. The coolness/serendipity factor is way more important here. But I just need advice on what to look for that is reasonably affordable. Plus things to be on the lookout for when trying to decide if a camera will still be able to function.

Thanks in advance!

Greg

From the list you provided, I would choose either the "Texas Leica"... The Fuji GW690, or the Mamiya Press.

I use both the Fuji GW 690 i and a Fuji GSW 690 ii. I also have several 6X6 and 6x4.5 film cameras. The "Texas Leicas' are just so much fun to use.

1

I own and shoot with the Fuji GW690 II and GSW690 II cameras

Texas Leicas - in other words oversized rangefinders.

Beautifully made, very solid, simple, and easy to use. No metering, fixed lenses, big, but very easy to hold and shoot with.

Produce lovely sharp 6x9 images on 120 film - 8 images per roll

There's a counter on the base plate of each camera that records shutter activations. Each count equals 10 shutter actuations, so a 100 count is 1000 shutter activations. Shutter type is leaf. Mine continue to function with accurate exposure without CLA to date.

They are great cameras to shoot at today’s used prices, particularly for the version ii models.

Thank You!

Those are beautiful shots.

If you are up for some experimentation (i.e taping up holes in bellows, cleaning the inside of the lenses with meths) and shoot B&W, I'd recommend Voigtländer 6x9 folding cameras. I'd certainly place their lenses above Zeiss folding cameras.

Some of those very cheap (and slow) Voigtländer lenses were the best I've ever worked with, super sharp in the centre and mids, with some nice splay in the corners, but amazing super sharp otherwise and tonally magic! Try and get uncoated lenses - they are so smooth in their tonal transitions. The higher priced Bessa with top-price lenses I found less good than the cheaper Voigtländer offerings.

or try Rollei - cord/flex, 6x6 TLR.

Otherwise Fuji, solid, contrasty, dependable, and still cool these days.

Within the last month I've been on the phone with Tony Sansone, talking about pricing on a Mamiya Press system again- I've been in and out of the system twice now, and with Fuji still making peel-apart Polaroid, I wanna get back into it.

I enjoy having the system around. I like shooting medium format. I've shot weddings with my Presses and the extra planning required always seemed to make the experience that much more rewarding.

Go for it. All produce wonderful photos!

1

I had one for over 2 decades, until I got my Z. I had a Pentax 645N as well, but even with its interchangeable lens capabilities and electronics, my GSW690II remains one of my favorite cameras ever.

1

I have no doubt that the Fuji (newest) probably shoots the best.

Almost certainly, on the whole--newest and most advanced is a big advantage, all else being equal. If the angle-of-view / field-of-view of GW690 (90mm lens = 39mm on 35mm film or 'full frame' digital) or GSW690 (65mm lens = 28mm on 35mm film or 'full frame' digital) suits your needs, and you can deal with the lack of a light meter, they appear to be very capable cameras.

And the Mamiya has the benefit of a decent production run, and interchangeable lenses.

Yes, but lenses other than 'normal' ones in good working condition won't necessarily be easy to find inexpensively. I've been surprised by how much money people want for these medium format press cameras and their lenses, compared to newer, more capable systems. Personally, I can't see going this route unless you have some peculiar need or emotional attachment.

I'm not looking for photographic perfection. The coolness/serendipity factor is way more important here.

That is where a 1950s folder scores some points. People like them. Strangers will approach you when you use it. But as a photographic tool, they have some significant potential limitations.

But I just need advice on what to look for that is reasonably affordable. Plus things to be on the lookout for when trying to decide if a camera will still be able to function.

In 2018, anything shooting medium format film is not going to be what I'd call "reasonably affordable" unless you shoot B&W film and process it yourself. Otherwise, film and processing costs will soon crush any reasonable concept of affordability.

As far as what to look for: with any old lens, I like to look through it, from the rear, with the aperture all the way open, to look for fungus / haze, scratches, and heavy dust--time and storage conditions have rendered lots of these old lenses incapable of producing decent results. Beyond that, a shutter than not only works, but whose timings sound about right, is important. Then there's the geometry / mechanism of an old folder.

Chris Dodkin wrote:

U

There's a counter on the base plate of each camera that records shutter activations. Each count equals 10 shutter actuations, so a 100 count is 1000 shutter activations. Shutter type is leaf. Mine continue to function with accurate exposure without CLA to date.

They are great cameras to shoot at today’s used prices, particularly for the version ii models.

On the dial next to the hot shoe - what is the "4 EXP/120" setting for?

-- hide signature --

Your time is limited, so don't waste it arguing about camera features - go out and capture memories

1

KWNJr wrote:

Chris Dodkin wrote:

U

There's a counter on the base plate of each camera that records shutter activations. Each count equals 10 shutter actuations, so a 100 count is 1000 shutter activations. Shutter type is leaf. Mine continue to function with accurate exposure without CLA to date.

They are great cameras to shoot at today’s used prices, particularly for the version ii models.

On the dial next to the hot shoe - what is the "4 EXP/120" setting for?

In Japan, there used to be a shorter version of the normal 120 roll film that would give 4 exposures of 6 x 9 format.

2

RobinHsherwood wrote:

KWNJr wrote:

Chris Dodkin wrote:

U

There's a counter on the base plate of each camera that records shutter activations. Each count equals 10 shutter actuations, so a 100 count is 1000 shutter activations. Shutter type is leaf. Mine continue to function with accurate exposure without CLA to date.

They are great cameras to shoot at today’s used prices, particularly for the version ii models.

On the dial next to the hot shoe - what is the "4 EXP/120" setting for?

In Japan, there used to be a shorter version of the normal 120 roll film that would give 4 exposures of 6 x 9 format.

Winner in the arcane knowledge category!

4

I may be able to top that trivia knowledge!

The 4 shot 120 rolls were favored by tour-bus photographers, taking group shots of tourists in Asia.

These MF cameras were designed to allow the photogs to grab high quality group shots at key tourist sites, then have the film rush processed during the day, and have prints ready for people to buy at the end of their bus tour.

The whole Fujifilm 6x9, 6x7, 6x6 fixed lens market in Asia was driven by these (very popular) tourist photographers.

When Fuji roll out the new GFX50R, it will be a historical nod to these cameras, and that market, which Fuji continued to produce film cameras for until very recently.

The GF670 was in production until 2014

The GF670W until 2015

2

Chris Dodkin wrote:

I may be able to top that trivia knowledge!

The 4 shot 120 rolls were favored by tour-bus photographers, taking group shots of tourists in Asia.

These MF cameras were designed to allow the photogs to grab high quality group shots at key tourist sites, then have the film rush processed during the day, and have prints ready for people to buy at the end of their bus tour.

The whole Fujifilm 6x9, 6x7, 6x6 fixed lens market in Asia was driven by these (very popular) tourist photographers.

When Fuji roll out the new GFX50R, it will be a historical nod to these cameras, and that market, which Fuji continued to produce film cameras for until very recently.

The GF670 was in production until 2014

The GF670W until 2015

Wow!

That knob will also lend bulk film loaders the ability to do short rolls---and that's a cool thing if you're going to shoot B+W films and do Zone System. As we all know, ZS works best with view cameras because they are single shot, and roll films are an awkward fit. A 4 shot roll not so much, though.

That knob will also lend bulk film loaders the ability to do short rolls---and that's a cool thing if you're going to shoot B+W films and do Zone System. As we all know, ZS works best with view cameras because they are single shot, and roll films are an awkward fit. A 4 shot roll not so much, though.

Okay, you've got me curious: I'm familiar with bulk film for 35mm, but 120 film uses backing paper, and I cannot recall bulk rolls of film that size (about 61mm wide, unperforated) being available. Can you point me toward the commercial availability of bulk film in that size, bulk film loaders for that size, and the short backing papers?

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